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Subject: SPACE Digest V10 #72

SPACE Digest                                      Volume 10 : Issue 72

Today's Topics:
             Soviet Probe to Mars
             Re: Information on ULYSSES.
         Re: Voting via taxes & other 3&*%^#!
               Re: VOYAGER 1 and Pluto.
            Re: Edgar Rice Quayle on Mars.
                Phobos
               Re: Private launch costs
             Re: Mars Mission ship design
            Re: Edgar Rice Quayle on Mars.
              Food from above...
              Re: RTGs for use on earth
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: 13 Sep 89 15:14:41 GMT
From: attcan!utgpu!watmath!watdragon!dahlia![e-mail]  (David Pike)
Subject: Soviet Probe to Mars

Maybe this was already discussed a while ago, but I just got back
from four months of away-from-school.

Anyway, about 2 months ago I heard a report on CTV's nightly news
that the Soviet probe to Mars had stopped working.  What was interesting
though was that it was apparently sending photos up to the time it
stopped.  According to CTV, among the last photos to get out showed
SOMETHING coming at it!!  No mention of just what was given, but it
was said that the Soviets were going to release their data at Geneva
about a week later.  I haven't heard a thing since.

If anybody out there knows what I'm talking about, please let me know
what is supposed to have REALLY happened.  Of course, I'm assuming
that there isn't some sort of cover-up going on, and that my posting
will not be stopped by the CIA, FBI, KGB, etc, etc.

Thanks, David.

===============================================================================
David Pike                                                    Think Palm Trees
[e-mail]

------------------------------

Date: 13 Sep 89 02:44:11 GMT
From: mcsun!ukc!cam-cl![e-mail]  (Kish Shen)
Subject: Re: Information on ULYSSES.

I have a question about Ulysses that I have wanted to know for a long time:

What will Ulysses do at the encounter with Jupiter? I assume it will do
some science there; but I have seen nothing on this on all the stuff I
have read. Does it even carry a camera?

Kish Shen
Computer Lab, University of Cambridge

------------------------------

Date: 14 Sep 89 17:52:00 GMT
From: hp-sdd!apollo![e-mail]  (Peter Nelson)
Subject: Re: Voting via taxes & other 3&*%^#!



 Dale Greer posts...

 >  Is it just me, or what?  Doesn't it seem hypocritical of a people
 >  who spend $17G/year on music and movies, $250G/year on leisure supplies
 >  and activities overall, to say we shouldn't spend $13G/year on space
 >  exploration?

    No.  Where's the hypocrisy?   The money they're spending on
    junk culture is *their* money.   You're welcome to spend *your*
    money however you want.

    The hypocrisy is on the part of those who claim to admire
    democracy and democratic principles and the 'wisdom of the
    people' and who then turn around and oppose 'voting via taxes'
    and other such schemes.   Anyone who truly believes in democracy
    should allow the maximum possible expression of the will of the
    people. (and good luck to them!)

    I avoid such hypocrisy by being upfront about these things:  I think
    the majority of the voters are drooling idiots who I wouldn't
    trust to make an intelligent choice about the color of the fire
    chief's car.   I don't think anyone with less than an IQ of 130
    should be allowed to vote.   And even then they should probably
    be required to pass a comprehensive test on math, science, and
    geography.

                                                    ---Peter

------------------------------

Date: 14 Sep 89 17:38:53 GMT
From: mailrus!sharkey!itivax!vax3![e-mail]  (Allen W. Sherzer)
Subject: Re: VOYAGER 1 and Pluto.

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Henry Spencer) writes:
>In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (CUP/ASG, MLO5-2/G1 6A, 223-3283) writes:
>>        How close will VOYAGER 1 come into range of the planet Pluto?
>
>Not very.  Looking at the whole solar system, V1 is sort of vaguely near
>Pluto.  That means a few hundred million kilometers from it.  It's not
>going to get any closer.

So would a Voyager picture of Pluto be better than an Earth based picture?

   Allen


----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|  Allen Sherzer                     | DETROIT:                            |
|  [e-mail]                       | Where the weak are killed and eaten |
----------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: 14 Sep 89 16:18:00 GMT
From: hp-sdd!apollo![e-mail]  (Steve Rehrauer)
Subject: Re: Edgar Rice Quayle on Mars.

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (S Schaper) writes:
>At least the Vice President is strongly pro-space. IF he did say that, I am
>sure he has already been corrected. He seems to be an intelligent fellow who
>has enough stage fright to make some truely remarkable gaffs on camera. On the
>other hand, the news media hates his guts and has a history of mis-quoting and
>fabricating speech fragments for others in office that they disagree with.

But will he still be pro-space when he discovers that Mars is not, after all,
actually The Planet of Playtex Party-Bunnies, or whatever he believed it to
be?  If he IS pro-space, you'd think he'd have at some point taken the time
to inform himself.  I don't require him to plot orbits in his head, but some
basic inkling of what has happened this century re: space might be nice.
Has the man ever cracked a National Geographic in the past decade or two?

[ All this assumes that he actually said the Mars bit, which I find semi-hard
  to believe, even considering the source.  Still, as a friend is fond of
  saying -- "Dan Quayle: The best impeachment/assassination insurance a
  President could ask for!" :) ]
--
>>> "Aaiiyeeeee!  Death from above!" <<<  | Steve Rehrauer
    Fone: [phone] x6168             | Apollo Computer, a
    ARPA: [e-mail]          | division of Hewlett-Packard
"Look, Max: 'Pressurized cheese in a can'.  Even _WE_ wouldn't eat that!"

------------------------------

Date: 14 Sep 1989 08:07:31 EDT (Thu)
From: Ralph Hartley <[e-mail]>
Subject: Phobos

From SCIENCE Vol 245, 8 September 1989 p1045

On 27 March ... the spacecraft was passing near Phobos for what was, by then
a routine session of imaging. "It was on automatic operation" he [Kremnev,
director of the soviet spacecraft manufacturing plant] said. "To conserve
energy, the transmitter was off during imaging. But at the time it was due
to restart, no signal was heard on Earth." the control group hurriedly sent
up emergency commands," Kremnev said, and they indeed were able to reestablish
contact. "They got 17 minutes of telemetry data. But the spacecraft was
tumbling so that the only communication was through the spacecraft's small
antenna.. Therefore they couldn't decipher the telemetry. Then they lost the
telemetry". Phobos 2 was never heard from again.

But since then, said Kremnev, "Considerable time has been taken, and we have
been successful in deciphering the telemetry." There is now no doubt that
the failure lay in the spacecraft's on board computer, he said, and was not
due to, say, a meteoroid collision. [of course the eetees could still have
done it :-)] "after the failure of Phobos," he said, "People at Babakan said
'We have luck only with women - not spacecraft!'"

Kremnev also offered new details as to how the Phobos 1 spacecraft was lost
last year on the way to Mars. As part of the ground checkout prior to
launch, he said, the spacecraft computer had been loaded with a program for
testing its steering. Once the test was completed, of course, the program
was no long[er] needed. However it was in "firmware" - read-only memory -
which could only be cleared with special electronics equipment. "We would
have had to remove the computer from the spacecraft and take it to the
people who could do it," said Kremnev. "[But] we had VERY little time before
the voyage. So the program was 'locked in a safe.'" That is, it was sealed
off and rendered harmless by other software in the spacecraft computer.

Unfortunately, said Kremnev, "the key was found to unlock the safe." On 29
August 1988, not long after launch, a ground controller omitted a single
letter in a series of digital commands sent to the spacecraft. And by
malignant bad luck, that omission caused the code to be mistranslated in
just such a way as to trigger the test sequence. Phobos 1 went into a tumble
that was not noticed until the next attempt at contact, 2 days later. It was
never recovered. Kremnev said that future versions will have more on-board
safeguards.

And what happened to the controller who made the error? Well Kremnev told
SCIENCE with a dour expression, he did not go to jail or to Siberia. In fact,
it was he who eventually tracked down the error in the code. Nontheless,
said Kremnev, "he was not able to participate in the later operation of
Phobos"

                    Ralph Hartley
                    [e-mail]

------------------------------

Date: 14 Sep 89 02:45:54 GMT
From: uflorida!haven!uvaarpa!hudson!astsun8.astro.Virginia.EDU![e-mail]  (Greg Lindahl)
Subject: Re: Private launch costs

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Jim Bowery) writes:
#John Roberts writes:
#
#The Soviet government's effectiveness in space activities can, in general,
#be attributed to the fact that while our private sector is more effective
#than the Soviet public sector, our public sector is LESS effective than
#the Soviet public sector.

In general, few things about economics are true. The US public sector provides
shuttle-sized launches for the SAME COST as the shuttle.

Some US corporations might be efficient (AMROC, OSC). Others aren't
(Titan IV, anyone?).

Let's talk about space, not trade over-generalizations about the
public and private sectors.

------
Greg Lindahl
[e-mail]                                             I'm not the NRA.

------------------------------

Date: 14 Sep 89 18:25:02 GMT
From: china.uu.net![e-mail]  (Dan Williams)
Subject: Re: Mars Mission ship design

In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Kevin Bagley) writes:
> In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Jesse M. Mundis) writes:

>  2)     If it's decided there has to be gravity, use two modules
>         connected with an access tunnel. Start it spinning.
>         Cheaper and easier to build than a ring. Also, I don't
>         think we need enough space to warrant a ring.
>          __________                             __________
>         |  Gravity |       Access_Tunnel       |  Gravity |
>         |  Module  =============(_)=============  Module  |
>         |__________|    Connects to Freedom    |__________|

I think that there are some problems with seals between rotating objects let
alone passing electrical, air and plumbing through.  For such a system you
will need two detached support systems with maybe a broadcast link for
connecting freedom computers to gravity module computers.  An moving
between the gravity modules and freedom may not be as easy as you might
hope.

>  3)     Attatch boosters, BIG fuel tanks, landing, and exploration
>         vehicles.
    Nah!  Use a light sail.  We don't need to hurry if we are sending a
package like Freedom to Mars

>  5)     Freedom orbits Mars while landing and exploration vehicles
>         are sent down to begin establishment of base on Mars.
    If we have Freedom orbiting Mars why do we need to establish a Base
on the planet?  The only stuff you need on the planet are sandwiches, air
equipment (if you send down people and not a rover piloted from Freedom),
and hefties(TM) to stuff samples in.  If you want to leave supplies that
you don't have to ferry back from earth on next trip then leave them in a
"stable" orbit around Mars.  Maybe only stable for a set period so as to
apply pressure for a return trip ala ldef.

>  2)     Anybody know the estimated mass of Freedom. Using Lunar gravity
>         assist, how much fuel/thrust would be needed. Don't forget the
>         return home requirements.
    Why not just setup an orbit that goes between the orbit of Mars and
earth and hop off and on at the appropriate waypoints?

>  3)     How long would the trip take? How long would it take to build
>         this contraption?
>
>  4)     How many people should go? How long should they stay?
    What is the crew size for Freedom as planed? (12?) Some crew number
under that.

>  5)     Any major flaws in this idea?  Is it possible?  Difficulties I
>         see include... Fuel requirements, Braking requirements on earth
>         return, and most of all -- political b.s..

    Congress doesn't want something as useful as space station freedom
being built as it is and you think they will go for this?


--

| Dan Williams (uunet!china!dan) | FRP: It's not just a game,        |
|       MCDONNELL DOUGLAS        |            it's an adventure!     |
|           Denver CO            | "Of course thats just my opinion" |

------------------------------

Date: 14 Sep 89 19:49:02 GMT
From: [e-mail]  (James N. Price)
Subject: Re: Edgar Rice Quayle on Mars.

Quayle may be pro-space right now because (and only because) it's
politically fashionable.  Next week (month, year) he may be pro-
(or anti-) rail transportation, abortion, civil rights or whatever
for the same reason.

------------------------------

Date:     Thu, 14 Sep 89 7:47:20 CDT
From: Will Martin <[e-mail]>
Subject:  Food from above...

>From: John Roberts <[e-mail]>
>Subject: Private launch costs
> ...
>some of
>the proposals (such as growing food crops in orbit for use on earth)

Hmmm... That calls to mind an interesting image. I imagine a giant
popcorn farm in orbit, and, after harvest, they just send the crop on a
re-entry trajectory. The heat pops the kernels, which then slow down due
to their increased surface area and float gently to earth... Gives a
whole new meaning to the term "manna from heaven"... :-) :-) :-)

Regards, Will

------------------------------

Date: 14 Sep 89 14:51:21 GMT
From: bfmny0![e-mail]  (Tom Neff)
Subject: Re: RTGs for use on earth

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Mark Robert Thorson) writes:
>The Mexican incident involved a cobalt source which wound up being used
>as scrap metal for making table legs and concrete reinforcing rods (rebar).

Just to keep this straight -- there was a separate incident, in Brazil I
believe, involving a discarded radioisotope (Cs) source from a medical
lab, disposed of by tossing into a public dump.  Someone scavenging the
dump found it, partly ruptured, and noticed these dozens of pie-shaped
lozenges inside containing metal that glowed.  Being a typical product
of our ultramodern global village, the discoverer naturally associated
his find with sexual potency and the Virgin Mary in one order or
another, and started handing bits of it out to his awed townspeople who
put it on their tongues, carried it in lockets next to their
you-know-whats, etc.  It took investigators months to track down all the
bits of metal.  Hundreds of people were permanently injured and several
lives lost, not only because of some Brazilian laboratory's negligence,
but also because people the world over still deal with technology on a
mystical level.

And if anyone feels like laughing at the dumb Brazilians, I'll see you
in the lines for BACK TO THE FUTURE II this fall. :-)
--
Annex Canada now!  We need the room,    \)    Tom Neff
    and who's going to stop us.        (\    [e-mail]

------------------------------

End of SPACE Digest V10 #72
*******************